EarthBox Forum

EarthBox Chat => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:25:00 am

Title: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:25:00 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Full Member, agrif. This user is located in Alameda, CA Sunset Zone 17 USDA Hardiness 9a-10b. This was originally posted on March 8, 2012.

Does the AWS work with the Junior Earthbox? Does not seem like it will but thought I would ask.

Thanks
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:27:15 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, mjb8743. This user is located in Zone 7, South NJ, Garden State. This was originally posted on March 8, 2012.

The box depth is shallower. I suppose with some modification (or a new tube) of the fill tube to get the sensor cup at the right height above the water level it might work...  I dunno...

Mickie


Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:28:45 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Donald1800. This user is located in Fontana, CA Zone 8. This was originally posted on March 8, 2012.

First the caveat:
I do not own a 'junior' model, and have not tested this combination.

Having said this, I can not envision EB not accommodating the AWS in their design.  The tube/valve assembly will sit a little higher in the 'junior' than the regular sized box when properly seated in the bottom socket.  Kathy should be responding here tomorrow, Friday.

Donald1800
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:30:38 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Horticulturalist, over 45 years in the business. The EarthBox Hero Member, Kathy. This user is located in the mountains of PA Zone 5, almost 4. This was originally posted on March 9, 2012.

Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Donald1800. This user is located in Fontana, CA Zone 8. This was originally posted on March 8, 2012.

First the caveat:
I do not own a 'junior' model, and have not tested this combination.

Having said this, I can not envision EB not accommodating the AWS in their design.  The tube/valve assembly will sit a little higher in the 'junior' than the regular sized box when properly seated in the bottom socket.  Kathy should be responding here tomorrow, Friday.

Donald1800

Ok here is my response, we have not tested it yet. We had no way of testing it, until we had product. We do not know if it will work, and won't know for a while. We will begin tests shortly, keeping in mind our garden was down to 15 degrees the other night. We never really considered the AWS being used in Junior, we never thought Junior would be used in a high volume growing situation. Looking at the design of the reservoir, the probability is not high of it working. Also, you would have the full size tube inserted in the box.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:31:50 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Donald1800. This user is located in Fontana, CA Zone 8. This was originally posted on March 9, 2012.


Kathy:
Sometimes I am surprised by corporate thinking.  This is one of those times.

The major error is thinking that the AWS is primarily used in high volume.  My guess is that most of your customers are using the AWS for the convenience of NOT being married to the farm - being able to leave home for the weekend during the peak summer temps. without worrying that you will return to a withered-up garden.  I know THAT is the reason I bought into the system.  I would have bought it for only one box!

I think EB has lost track of the value the AWS is to your product line and its customers.  PLEASE - don't do this again for any future products.

Donald1800
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:36:20 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, movrshakr. This user is located in Zone 10a - Cape Canaveral. This was originally posted on March 9, 2012.

Quote
I know THAT is the reason I bought into the system.  I would have bought it for only one box!

I =did= buy it originally for only one box--for exactly the reason you state--to be able to leave it for some days without losing the plants.

How about a fill tube for Junior that is same height as standard one, with top that will accept the AWS and a bottom that fits the Junior screen/box?  I would even suggest that such should be shipped with the box once it is created--or at least available as an option.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:37:50 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, ErnieHodge. This user is located in Lake Panasoffkee, FL Zone 9a. This was originally posted on March 9, 2012.

Is the Junior fill tube a different size than the regular EB? If it was the same size it would have been easy to incorporate the AWS.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:39:15 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Horticulturalist, over 45 years in the business. The EarthBox Hero Member, Kathy. This user is located in the mountains of PA Zone 5, almost 4. This was originally posted on March 12, 2012.

Well, Donald we hope it does work, but to be honest with you we made this box to compete with the window boxes of the world and to out perform them by having a water reservoir. That mission is accomplished. Now, we will test the AWS and hope that it we will work in our design. There's a good chance it won't because of the limited size of the water reservoir.  Something to keep in mind is we do not own the AWS design or product.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:41:50 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Horticulturalist, over 45 years in the business. The EarthBox Hero Member, Kathy. This user is located in the mountains of PA Zone 5, almost 4. This was originally posted on March 12, 2012.

Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, movrshakr. This user is located in Zone 10a - Cape Canaveral. This was originally posted on March 9, 2012.

Quote
I know THAT is the reason I bought into the system.  I would have bought it for only one box!

I =did= buy it originally for only one box--for exactly the reason you state--to be able to leave it for some days without losing the plants.

How about a fill tube for Junior that is same height as standard one, with top that will accept the AWS and a bottom that fits the Junior screen/box?  I would even suggest that such should be shipped with the box once it is created--or at least available as an option.

I guess what everybody isn't understanding, is the AWS valve works on a pressure measurement from the reservoir. Junior's reservoir is small, a lot less depth than what the AWS valve was created for, it's not as simple as saying here's a longer tube.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:44:49 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, movrshakr. This user is located in Zone 10a - Cape Canaveral. This was originally posted on March 12, 2012.

OK, indeed. I think we do understand how AWS works. What was not realized was the lack of depth in the water of a Junior. If the depth of the water in the reservoir cannot be high enough to shut off the valve. the current AWS will not work, regardless of the mechanics of getting it into the box. I did not realize the Junior reservoir was that "un-tall."
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:47:00 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Donald1800. This user is located in Fontana, CA Zone 8. This was originally posted on March 12, 2012.

From where I sit, there are two areas which will nix the use of the AWS with the Junior:

1.  The Junior filling tube diameter is smaller than the EB filling tube, preventing insertion of the AWS valve assembly (although, even here, the top of the Junior tube can be squeezed to fit the top of the valve).

2.  The top of the filling tube, even when trimmed shorter to allow the black sensor to sit lower in the reservoir, the water level still does not rise high enough to turn the valve off.

Donald1800
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:47:50 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Horticulturalist, over 45 years in the business. The EarthBox Hero Member, Kathy. This user is located in the mountains of PA Zone 5, almost 4. This was originally posted on March 13, 2012.

Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Donald1800. This user is located in Fontana, CA Zone 8. This was originally posted on March 12, 2012.

From where I sit, there are two areas which will nix the use of the AWS with the Junior:

1.  The Junior filling tube diameter is smaller than the EB filling tube, preventing insertion of the AWS valve assembly (although, even here, the top of the Junior tube can be squeezed to fit the top of the valve).

2.  The top of the filling tube, even when trimmed shorter to allow the black sensor to sit lower in the reservoir, the water level still does not rise high enough to turn the valve off.

Donald1800

The Junior fill tube is the same size, the two factors of concern are the size of the reservoir and the length of the tube, as said before the length of the tube is easy to amend.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:49:33 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, movrshakr. This user is located in Zone 10a - Cape Canaveral. This was originally posted on March 13, 2012.

OK, by 'is the same size,' I take it you mean it is the same diameter, but is shorter length. 

If that is correct, then a standard tube could be put into it (and an AWS would fit in the tube), but it would not work because the water level at the bottom would never get high enough to shut off the valve.


Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:51:21 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, RatedPG. This user is located in Zone 8b (Jacksonville, FL). This was originally posted on March 19, 2012.

I have tried tweaking the AWS for a "homemade self watering system" (which I disposed off out of respect for the EB).  But I got it to work.  I test the AWS when I'm monitoring it's performance on regular EB's with a little water in a cup and it works.  So the depth on the Junior might not be a problem unless the water level in its reservoir is really too low.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:52:14 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, mjb8743. This user is located in Zone 7, South NJ, Garden State. This was originally posted on March 19, 2012.

Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, RatedPG. This user is located in Zone 8b (Jacksonville, FL). This was originally posted on March 19, 2012.

I have tried tweaking the AWS for a "homemade self watering system" (which I disposed off out of respect for the EB).  But I got it to work.  I test the AWS when I'm monitoring it's performance on regular EB's with a little water in a cup and it works.  So the depth on the Junior might not be a problem unless the water level in its reservoir is really too low.

In following this thread, a thought keeps kicking... maybe it's not the water depth that matters, but the air space. The sensor reacts to air pressure which changes as the air space changes due to rising or lowering water levels. It doesn't care how deep the water is....

Mickie
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:57:27 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, movrshakr. This user is located in Zone 10a - Cape Canaveral. This was originally posted on March 19, 2012.

Quote
In following this thread, a thought keeps kicking... maybe it's not the water depth that matters, but the air space. The sensor reacts to air pressure which changes as the air space changes due to rising or lowering water levels. It doesn't care how deep the water is....

Mickie

No, it =is= the water level relative to the tube.  As the water level rises, it compresses the air INSIDE the AWS tube.  That increased pressure on the diaphragm of the valve is what shuts it off.

If the standard AWS does not go all the way to the bottom of the reservoir (I don't know), it still might could be gotten to work in a junior by mounting it so that it projects further down into the water than normal (by shortening the fill tube for example).
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 08:59:07 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Newbie, joel7269. This was originally posted on April 22, 2012.

Any updates on this?
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 09:00:05 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Active Member, jdheere. This was originally posted on April 22, 2012.

Why not just use a dripper and microtube on a timer?  The period would need to increase as the season warms and the plants demand goes up but an average that wouldn't starve the plants or water the patio could easily be found.  The system could also be very inexpensive to add on to later as the 'farm' increases in numbers.


Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 09:01:10 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, movrshakr. This user is located in Zone 10a - Cape Canaveral. This was originally posted on March 19, 2012.

Quote
In following this thread, a thought keeps kicking... maybe it's not the water depth that matters, but the air space. The sensor reacts to air pressure which changes as the air space changes due to rising or lowering water levels. It doesn't care how deep the water is....

Mickie

Mickie, I owe you a bit of an apology.  In re-reading what you said, it is correct, even though I said it wasn't. 

What matters is the TOP of the water relative to the AWS sensor tube.  So, you are correct--the water could be 50 feet deep, and the sensor would turn on and off with the rise and fall of the top of the water plane.  Looking at it that way, "it's not the water depth that matters", only where the top of the water is.

If you take a DEFINED CONTAINER (reservoir), then depth does matter because the top of the water level is what is going up or down, thus the depth is changing, and looking at it this way, then depth does matter--because "depth" is changing the top level of the water.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 09:02:34 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Deb. This user is located in the Pacific NorthWET - Sunset - W. Climate Zone 6. This was originally posted on April 23, 2012.

I've seen here where people will check if the AWS is working by lifting a sensor out of a glass of water and seeing if it drips.  How does this happen if it is an air pressure issue?

Deb
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 09:03:44 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, movrshakr. This user is located in Zone 10a - Cape Canaveral. This was originally posted on March 19, 2012.

Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Deb. This user is located in the Pacific NorthWET - Sunset - W. Climate Zone 6. This was originally posted on April 23, 2012.

I've seen here where people will check if the AWS is working by lifting a sensor out of a glass of water and seeing if it drips.  How does this happen if it is an air pressure issue?

Deb

When the bottom of the AWS tube goes down into the water, the water "presses up" on the air inside the tube, increasing the pressure.  As the water level falls, the air pressure in the tube decreases--at some point enough to allow the valve to open.  When then water level rises "enough" to increase the pressure inside the tube to the cutoff point, it cuts off.

Putting the sensor up and down in a glass of water simulates the same thing as the water level rising and falling in the reservoir.
Title: Re: Junior and AWS
Post by: EarthBoxAdmin on July 10, 2017, 09:05:01 am
Disclaimer: This post was originally posted by Hero Member, Donald1800. This user is located in Fontana, CA Zone 8. This was originally posted on April 2, 2012.

In other words, the valve is Normally ON, and is only turned OFF when the water level has raised the sensor tube air pressure high enough to press the diaphragm against the water emitter  hole.