Greenhouse Garden

[mjb8743]

I too used the tulle this past fall/winter for cole crops and very happy to report no moths got in and I had no caterpillars as well. However the tulle does not keep out aphids or whiteflies, and it keeps out lady bugs and lacewings so the aphids can multiply unchecked. If you use the tulle you will still have to find a way to control the aphids and whiteflies.

How big was the mesh? I understand there are different mesh sizes in tulle. The one I bought has awfully small holes. I can't envision aphids or whiteflies getting in.

[potatohead]

I don't know how many holes per square inch or anything, but it was the bridal veil tulle sold at Hancock fabrics (not the cheaper netting that they sell with larger holes). It is the finest one that they sell.

Maybe the little devils flew or crawled in while I had the net up harvesting, etc. All I know is they would have a party in there, and multiply like crazy, and I would see ladybugs crawling on the outside unable to figure out how to get in. A few times I grabbed the ladybug and stuck her inside, but that did not help. I am not sure how big parasitic wasps are, but they were able to get inside too, because I had lots of those mummified aphids stuck to the leaves which was really nasty. It would take forever to wash all that junk off. But it was better than eating caterpillars.

[baileyj]

I have used 2 types, the soft tulle netting that has tiny/tiny holes and the heavier/stiffer netting that would probably allow the aphids to get in.

I did find the heavier/stiffer netting held up better than the soft tulle.  The softer tulle only lasted me one season and easily ripped if you were not super tender with it.
I also found the softer tulle when it rained, even heavy morning dew, would stick to and lay on the plants...not a horrible problem, but not ideal...

My goal was to keep out the cabbage moths/worms and birds/squirrels....not all comers....I also use it now over seeds if I am planting directly so those darn starlings and crows do not eat the baby plants..then I remove them when they are big enough.

I have never seen the EB version of netting...Does anyone know how small those holes are ? or how heavy the netting is ?, Does it last a while ?...one season is not long enough for me...so this year I am using up my tulle and heading more for the heavier netting.

Judi 

[potatohead]

That gives me an idea to use a piece of tulle to cover my zucchini stem to thwart squash borers. I will have to do that ASAP because it is getting kind of vine-like and looks vulnerable.

I have not tried the EB insect netting but I have tried another type of netting also found at Hancock’s.

http://www.hancockfabrics.com/Mosquito-Netting-Green-Fabric-Nylon-Nettings_stcVVproductId48185335VVcatId544753VVviewprod.htm

It is more expensive than the tulle but very durable. I have used it for about 8 months on some of my boxes and it has not torn, faded, or shown any signs of deterioration. The mesh size may be a little larger than the bridal tulle. I still had aphids inside but it did keep out moths and other big bugs. I think it does provide some slight shade as well as compared to the tulle. It is not stiff and tends to lay on the plants as compared to tulle because it is a little heavier in weight than the tulle. But it is durable and will last longer than tulle.

Greenhouse Megastore sells some insect nettings but I have not tried those yet either.

If anyone has any experience with the EB netting I would like to hear about that too.

[baileyj]

Potatohead,
I think between covering the baby zucchini/squash plants and spraying weekly with BT I am ahead of the squash borer.....
Once the babies grew a bit I felt comfortable removing the tulle so the bees could do their thing...

I hope I have not jinxed myself by saying that.

The last few years I have had little to no harvest for these due to the borer and squash bug.  I am loving having to find recipes for squash because I have more than I can just saute and eat....
Jud

[potatohead]

Does BT work for the borer? I thought BT was more for spraying on leaves, and the caterpillars eat it and die. Do you spray the stem with BT? Does it get inside the stem and thereby kill the caterpillar once it hatches and starts eating?

I am glad that you have lots of squash to eat and preserve this year!

[mjb8743]

Does BT work for the borer? I thought BT was more for spraying on leaves, and the caterpillars eat it and die. Do you spray the stem with BT? Does it get inside the stem and thereby kill the caterpillar once it hatches and starts eating?

I am glad that you have lots of squash to eat and preserve this year!

The borer beetle lays its eggs on the plant stem, usually the base, but sometimes on other stems. When the eggs hatch, the larva burrow into the stem to feed and grow. Spraying with BT should get the newborn larva as soon as they begin boring. The problem with BT is it's only good for a couple of days.  Sprays containing spinosad do the same thing, but lasts a couple of weeks, barring rain.

Mickie

[mjb8743]

I'm using the EB nets. This is what I've found:

They have a very fine mesh, and are pretty heavy. I expect them to last several seasons without abuse.

They are very big... designed to fit over the standard staking system. It was awkward putting them over young broccoli plants. I put short bamboo stakes in each corner to lift the netting off the plants. Next year, I will use tall stakes to get the excess netting off the ground.

The drawstrings are just that...cotton strings. There are two that go through the hem, one exiting on each side. They have that little plastic thingy that you press to pull the string tight, and locks when you let go. I foresee that string will rot long before the net. A good winter project would be replacing that string with something stronger... nylon twine perhaps?

Great care should be taken before placing the net over the plants... it's far too easy to trap the bad guys inside. Lesson learned: spray a couple of times in succession before placing the net.

Another lesson: Using the nets on a crop that has to be harvested frequently is a pain in the butt. I originally was going to use them on my self-pollinating zucchini, but once I saw how cumbersome the nets were, I decided to just rely on sprays.

Would I buy more? I think so... I wish the price would come down, considering the reworking of the hems... hear that Earthbox??

Mickie

[potatohead]

Does BT work for the borer? I thought BT was more for spraying on leaves, and the caterpillars eat it and die. Do you spray the stem with BT? Does it get inside the stem and thereby kill the caterpillar once it hatches and starts eating?

I am glad that you have lots of squash to eat and preserve this year!

The borer beetle lays its eggs on the plant stem, usually the base, but sometimes on other stems. When the eggs hatch, the larva burrow into the stem to feed and grow. Spraying with BT should get the newborn larva as soon as they begin boring. The problem with BT is it's only good for a couple of days.  Sprays containing spinosad do the same thing, but lasts a couple of weeks, barring rain.

Mickie

Ok, I get it. The eggs get laid on the outside, then the larvae hatch and eat their way into the stem. So they eat the BT and die before they get inside the stem. For some reason I thought the moth laid the egg inside the stem (after making some kind of hole) and the larva hatched inside and just stayed in there, eating. So that makes total sense that the BT would work and the stem needs spraying. I better get back out there. Thanks, Mickie.

[carolg]

Wow, hot topic and I love it.  Where did you buy your greenhouse?  Kind?  I have 15 boxes and wonder if that would be ideal size.  I want to get more.  How much does greenhouse cost approximately?

[dkaufmann]

carolg - My first greenhouse was 8x10 and stuffed (too much) with 9 boxes. It is a Jewett Cameron. I have been pleased with it (I did add my own screen doors at each end). I got it at wayfair.com. The new one will be 12x20, also a Jewett Cameron Weatherguard IS63100. I believe it will hold 15 boxes with enough space around each box plus 2 aisles. I got it at wayfair.com because I add a 15% off coupon. I did a quick Google search and it is on sale at http://www.4seasongreenhouse.com/weatherguard-lawn-garden-commercial-greenhouse-p-1546.html for under $900. I think I'll have to add screening along the base of it, but the ventilation looks very good. It gets delivered Wednesday afternoon 

[dkaufmann]

A wonderful harvest tonight from a Wisconsin October garden. Possible only in the greenhouse! Brought in lettuce, tomatoes, peppers, sweet basil, and broccoli. A feast tonight 

[dkaufmann]

And here's the feast!

[dkaufmann]

Here was today's task in the hoop house. Ala Eliot Coleman it is a cold house - no heat other than sun will be provided. So today my husband and I created wickets to drape frost cover over the rows of boxes. The tall row has peppers, sweet basil, and broccoli. I don't expect the peppers and sweet basil to survive much longer, but everyday is a bonus. The broccoli I do hope will produce some heads yet this fall. The middle row I left the earthbox exposed on the south side to accumulate more heat (I hope). It's a first time experiment so we'll see what happens.

Two experiences so far this fall have me wondering:
1) I direct seeded some lettuce varieties and germination was very slow, and several plants that finally peeked out, died. My theory is that it got too hot during the day (up to 90). Alas (or not alas), several days a week I get to take care of my one year old granddaughter and am not here to monitor the ventilation.
2) maybe another contributing cause of seedling death is an invader. Under the cap, I found scratching areas and at least one tunnel more than finger width wide burrowing down, maybe even to the separator. I didn't feel anything when I put my finger down the tunnel (knowing that it wouldn't be fire ants and not even thinking about snakes). A rodent? Any ideas? Three of the boxes had these tunnels.

Kale and kohlrabi's came up well, as did onions. I'm still waiting for garlic to arrive to plant the last two boxes.

[dkaufmann]

Some new pics from the big "cold" house (no heat other than sun). The coldest temp in the greenhouse so far has been 29. The sweet basil is almost done. The green pepper is also pretty much done. I brought in all the little peppers. New broccoli is looking great and starting to head. It was transplanted August 24th. The old broccoli transplanted May 1st is still putting out side shoots. Kolrabi is making a bulb and I'm going to make Kale Krisps tonight from the first harvest of Red Winter Kale. Also harvesting lettuce and tomatoes from the little "cold" house. Will also have a zucchini for supper from the sunroom. I am enjoying gardening in the earth boxes so much!