EB AWS tubing and tees/reducers vs. retail store versions

[movrshakr]

OK, I have just encountered the oft mentioned, errrrrr, incompatibility of store purchased parts for the AWS system vs. EB-provided pieces.  We are talking the tube size confusion here.

I got (and I knew better; duh) "1/4 inch" valves.  They don't fit the EB tubing, which is 1/4 in Inside Diameter (ID).

So. here are some questions:

a. What package-marked size of pieces (tees, reducers, valves, etc) does one buy that will fit the EB tubing without leaking, yet can actually have the EB tube pushed onto them? Or is that even possible?

b. I can use all 3rd party tubes and throw away the EB tubing (what a waste) so that everything matches, BUT I still have to mate to the sensor.  What "outside" "3rd party" tube size fits onto the sensor barb?

c.  It seems that to avoid tearing your hair out, you need to go consistently either all EB stuff, or all outside stuff.  Or, has somebody figured out how to successfully mix and match when you need to modify/expand your system? 

[lite1]

Only partial answer, and I have only had my AWS up and running for 4 weeks. FWIW

1) I used non-EB pressure reducer, with mesh filter, and from there into the standard main EB line (I like the flow rate and the solidity of this EB main line tubing).  Used the supplied EB tees, and only at that point when branching off with 1/4" did I use spaghetti 1/4" tubing that I get from my local irrigation supplier.  It is not Rainbird, and I do not know specs on it.  I have had a couple of AWS leak where the 1/4" goes onto the barb at the top of the AWS, and as of today my speculation is that my 1/4" tubing acts differently on that barb depending on temperature.  Plan to recut it and re-fit as only 2 of 11 AWS have this top barb interface problem.

2) I used 3rd party 1/4" as it is cheaper, and much easier to work with than EB material. I also needed a lot more 1/4" because of my runs and because I curl some intentionally left-long 1/4" tubing by each EB so that if I want to rotate that box or more it 12 to 18" then I can uncoil and it move. If working in cooler weather I always boil some water and put it in a cup.  Then insert the tubing (EB or 3rd party) into the water.  Submerging about inch to 1.5" for perhap 10-20 sconds (timing depends on how cold it is outside when I am working).  Even with EB, the hot water makes it much more pliable and I find it an easier approach than using silicone.  A different thread indicated that EB states not to use Vaseline as if any gets in system it can be bad for AWS.

3) If you are setting up AWS for first time - seems that you are - I'd suggest doing so without a shut off for each AWS.  Keeps it simpler and one less place to check for leaks.  It can be added later.  So far I am not finding that I'm likely to want a shut off for each EB.  I am doing the weekly snack for tomatoes (calcium nitrate dissolved in water and added through the water tube, which means pulling out that AWS unit for a short time while pouring in CaNO3 solution) and I simply turn off the whole system mid-afternoon the day before so that I know the tomatoe EBs will have partially emptied and then on the following day I do my snack and turn whole system back on.  So far my weather has not gotten above 75 so when it gets into the 90s I may find that I want shut offs just for tomatoe EBs.  In my case the EBs are on a balcony and the faucet is on a lower deck so turning the whole system on and off requires some stairs but so far I still have not found really any reason to add shut offs for each EB.

3) When I shopped for parts, I took with me a sample of each EB part and tried interfacing them with what I was considering buying.

4) Once set up, the AWS does do its job and while it probably only saves a couple minutes of my time each day that is several hours over a growing season and hence I expect it will have paid for itself in 4 years or so.  In addition the consistency of water level in reservoir has got to make the plants happy.

Sorry I could not be more specific and of more help.  Matching irrigation parts is one of the annoyances of gardening.  I'm sure you'll be successful as many of us all across the country have gotten it working with different suppliers and certainly different Mfg. specs - there is some latitude of what works. Good luck.

[movrshakr]

Very nice input--very helpful.

As for taking along the part to match, most of the stuff I have found to buy (the small pieces that is) are in blister packs--so you cannot "see if they fit."  That's the reason I was kind of asking for answers like "you buy the xxx size to fit the yyy EB tubing."

The 3rd party 1/4" tubing...do you then just buy parts labeled 1/4 on the package, and they fit?  I would think that would be safe.

[cushman350]

Very nice input--very helpful.

As for taking along the part to match, most of the stuff I have found to buy (the small pieces that is) are in blister packs--so you cannot "see if they fit."  That's the reason I was kind of asking for answers like "you buy the xxx size to fit the yyy EB tubing."

The 3rd party 1/4" tubing...do you then just buy parts labeled 1/4 on the package, and they fit?  I would think that would be safe.

I would tell the salesperson, I'm not buying this  unless the package is opened, they can tape it back, I've seen packages in Lowe's taped up and hanging on the rack.

[Trishkie]

This is really frustrating.  Why can't everybody use the same dimensions?!

We set up our 6-box AWS last summer and for this season we changed the layout of setup, which requires redoing some of the tubing. Went to store to buy more connectors (dunno what happened to old leftovers from just a year ago). Bought what I thought should match - 1/4" connectors. I'll admit math wasn't my best subject, but isn't 1/4" the same as .25"?!

I also bought some 'blister packs.' Fortunately they're relatively cheap and I only opened one of them. I returned the 'test connector' to the bag and sealed it back up with the sealer portion of my FoodSaver. I'm hoping they'll let me return them all including the resealed one (you can count that they're all there).

But in the meantime, do I have to order from EB and wait for delivery just to get my system running again? Ugh!

[movrshakr]

Here is an interesting question (well, to me anyway)...  If the EB tees, reducers, etc. were in a retail store's package, what would be the size labeled on them?

In other words, what size are they in everybody elses' lingo?

[cushman350]

Here is an interesting question (well, to me anyway)...  If the EB tees, reducers, etc. were in a retail store's package, what would be the size labeled on them?

In other words, what size are they in everybody elses' lingo?

I.D. versus O.D.

[movrshakr]

Here is an interesting question (well, to me anyway)...  If the EB tees, reducers, etc. were in a retail store's package, what would be the size labeled on them?

In other words, what size are they in everybody elses' lingo?

I.D. versus O.D.

Well, of course.  But 'what would the label on 3rd party piece packages be to contain parts that fit EB's tubing' is the question?

[alwayslearning]

...  If the EB tees, reducers, etc. were in a retail store's package, what would be the size labeled on them?

In other words, what size are they in everybody elses' lingo?

I wonder how how many frustrated user questions and wasted purchases could be avoided if Earthbox leadership would just add the words "(inside diameter)" to each of their webstore AWS kit & component descriptions and the watering system instructions?

THE AWS is a great invention.  EB gets the AWS from a third party inventor/mfr; the tubing sizing may not ever change.  EB is criticized (justifiably) because they haven't made this sizing info explicit.  If we knew up front that it's a difficult-to-find tubing size, some of us might buy more from them initially. 

Other threads mentioned that 3/8" O.D. tubing appears to substitute ok for the 1/4" I.D. Earthbox AWS tubing if you cannot wait to get EB AWS tubing. http://forum.earthbox.com/index.php?topic=6069.msg50183#msg50183 and http://forum.earthbox.com/index.php?topic=5760.msg47308#msg47308

[movrshakr]

...I wonder how how many frustrated user questions and wasted purchases could be avoided if Earthbox leadership would just add the words "(inside diameter)" to each of their webstore AWS kit & component descriptions and the watering system instructions?...

But that still would not tell us what size 3rd party gadgets fit their tube.  Is the true answer 'none?'

[Trishkie]

And to further validate my frustrations on this situation, the store purchased parts (apparently Raindrip brand) doesn't specify I.D. (internal diameter) or O.D. (outside diameter) on the front of packaging. You have to actually check the small print on the BACK of the blister pack.

Now that I check the back of the blister pack I see it says: "Use with 1/4" (.160"-.180" I.D.) poly or vinyl tubing. So when I go back I'll check the back of these blister packs to find the I.D. listed for that particular pack.

So, I need to connect two pieces of the "large tubing" provided by EB. The EB store describes the "large tubing" as .25". That means I'm looking for double barbed connectors that note (on the back of this particular brand's packaging) that it fits .25" I.D. tubing. Can anybody confirm my reasoning here?

Final thought: Is this I.D./O.D. measurements like the metric system? Some countries use metric while others hold onto their old method with a death-grip? 

[movrshakr]

I think you will find this situation on the commercial, retail tubing and devices:

the commercial, retail packaging generally WILL NOT say what Inside Diameter (ID) the devices fit or show tube's ID.  My experience--limited--has been they talk 1/4" and 1/8", for example, but commercial, retail products are referring to the OUTSIDE diameter of the tubing or tubing to use with the device {Which is silly because it is the ID that will determine fit or not!}.

This is part of what is making this so difficult; that is how commercial, retail does it and EB refers to ID.  And there seemingly is no one-to-one correlation (i.e., 1/4 ID is always xx OD) --so that one could make a table of equivalences to cross-match.

There still is no answer here as to which commercial, retail devices (size) fit EB's various tubes.

[acanfield]

I found a connector last year that will connect two pieces of the AWS 3/8" tubing.  Look at http://forum.earthbox.com/index.php?topic=3953.msg32604#msg32604

I bought a few and successfully used them. 

[movrshakr]

I found a connector last year that will connect two pieces of the AWS 3/8" tubing.  Look at http://forum.earthbox.com/index.php?topic=3953.msg32604#msg32604...

I stepped back up one level at that site and they have other piece parts (tees, reducers, elbows, etc) for tubing systems as well...

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=551&parentcatid=855&clickid=popcorn

On the left side are links to all their products.

AND THEY LIST THE INSIDE DIAMETER THEY FIT!!  Finally, some company does something that makes sense. 

[movrshakr]

I have been out and about in my local area trying to buy parts to get my AWS (for one box!) installed.  It is insane trying to find parts in my town...very little is out there...nobody has any clue about the stuff.  You'd think drip irrigation would be "big enough" that there would be supplies. Even the big box stores will have one or two pieces, in one size--which you can't see if it fits your tubes because its in blister packs. Enough ranting...well, no promises.

I bought the sensors used from someone who is on the forum.  I have the sensor/valve, short small tube from valve to a tee, and the larger tube off both directions from the tee.

 The question is;  since the sensor/valve connects to a tee, and there are no more downstream boxes to run to, how do you close off the open tee end that would be going to another box if you had one?