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Author Topic: Gardenting/Soil Question  (Read 1622 times)
zenful6219
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Denton, TX Zone 8


« on: May 15, 2010, 10:47:23 AM »

In March 2010, we purchased and moved into a newly constructed home in Denton, Texas. This is in North Central Texas, about 35 miles south of the Oklahoma-Texas border and about 45 miles northwest of Dallas. In early April, we began to plant a few shrubs and small trees in our new back yard. We noticed right away that the soil was like Silly Putty or molding clay and it had a strong, pungent odor.

Not being soil experts, we thought the strong smell meant the builder had enriched the soil with some kind of compost. Since the yard had also been newly sodded and it's been relatively dry this season, we were watering the yard every other day. As the weeks progressed, we began to notice our newly planted shrubs and saplings were stressed, one or two actually died. We also began to notice water pooling in one low-lying area of the yard. The water does not seem to permeate the soil.

We started doing moisture level checks using a meter which ranges from dry, moist, and wet. Each planted site remained in the extreme Wet range, but only within the area's 1-2 foot radius and that was without any extra watering. Tests in other areas of the yard revealed Dry to Moist readings.

We started cutting the watering to 1-2 times a week, but the planted areas remained solidly Wet. We believe the plants are drowning.  It almost seems like, in the holes we dug for the new plants, it became like a clay pot and any water applied simply will not permeate outside of the area.

We did some research and believe the soil in this area of Denton is made up of Callisburg fine sandy loam, but we also believe the builder added some sort of compost product in an attempt to enrich the top layer of soil.

I need advise on what to do to improve the soil's permeability and/or quality. I admit to not knowing much about any of this and I"m not even sure what kind of expert I need to speak with regarding such an issue. So, any advise would be greatly appreciated.
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cushman350
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Tomato Hell, Wichita Falls, TX Zone 7b Yeah right


« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2010, 11:28:53 AM »

I searched for soils of Texas and found:

Denton county shows to have 4 types of soil, black clay to sandy.
Kirvin - Norfolk Group
Houston - Wilson Group
Wilson - Crockett Group
Denton - San Saba Group
Search here for Kirvin, etc.
http://ortho.ftw.nrcs.usda.gov/cgi-bin/osd/osdnamequery.cgi




Denton is just to the left of center and up a bit on the county map. You are either KN-Kirvin Norfolk ( sandfy loam desposit ) or DS San Saba ( a clayish soil )
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 12:39:41 PM by cushman350 » Logged

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zenful6219
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Denton, TX Zone 8


« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2010, 04:33:50 PM »

Cushman, the results you found may be the four main types of soil found in Denton county. However, we discovered records at the local university that included engineering test data from a recent Texas Highway Department report. It specifies the exact location and type of soil in the neighborhood: Callisburg fine sandy loam. Although we know what type of soil we have (and we know how bad it is), we don't know what to do to "fix" it.
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cushman350
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Tomato Hell, Wichita Falls, TX Zone 7b Yeah right


« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2010, 04:44:32 PM »

The "Soil Survey of Tarrant and Denton Counties" indicates that soils in your area are generally loamy fine sand layers formed in alkaline sediments.

It needs peat to separate the sand and an acid, maybe sulfur, to offset the alkalinity.
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BayouBengal
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new to forum/old to eathbox -- Zn 8b, BR. La.


« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 06:26:28 PM »

Zen, Here are a couple of sites you might find of interest. I confess to being confused, since the majority of sandy loam soils are desireable and your description of circumstances don't seem to parallel in my mind. --- anyhow ..> www.wy.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/soilmoisture/sandyloam.html (good pictures here). The other is --> www.gardenguides.com/102811-make-sandy-soil.html (down and dirty quick proportions test). If it were me I'd secure some pH paper or a meter and check that also. Hope this helps a little == Chuck
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zenful6219
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Denton, TX Zone 8


« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2010, 09:39:04 PM »

The following is from the report we found for our area and describes the Callisburg fine sandy loam, 1 to 3 percent slopes:

"Typically, the surface layer is medium acid, brown fine sandy loam about 5 inches thick.  From 5 to 13 inches is slightly acid, strong brown sandy clay.  From 13 to 32 inches is neutral, yellowish brown clay with pale brown mottles.  From 32 to 56 inches is moderately alkaline, brownish yellow sandy clay with a few strong brown and gray mottles.  From 56 to 80 inches is moderately alkaline, yellowish brown sandy clay loam with strong brown and light gray mottles.  This soil is well drained.  Surface runoff is slow.  Permeability is moderately slow.  Available water capacity is high."

MY COMMENTS:  This description fits what I see with the surface layer and the layer beneath it.  I have not dug more than about 15 inches down.  Top layer is very dark brown, incredibly stinky ("fragrant"), clayey to the feel when wet, but finely sandy-ish when dry and is about 6 inches thick.  It easily forms clods that are semi-friable.  The layer below is a medium brown sandy-clay in appearance, and compacted.  With proper grading the soil may be well drained, but we don't have proper grading at our house.  Water stays at the surface after rains, collects in any small depression and doesn't go anywhere.  Water does not appear to drain into the soil.  Neither does it seem to evaporate away, suggesting that over time water is drawn to the surface as the soil at all levels appears very moist.

"This Callisburg soil is used mainly for pasture and rangeland.  Crop residues returned to the soil surface help control erosion and maintain organic matter.  Terraces and contour farming are needed to help control erosion.  This soil has high potential for most recreational uses.  It has medium potential for playgrounds because of moderately slow permeability."

MY COMMENTS:  This area has traditionally been used as pasture and rangeland until it was recently developed.  The soil does appear to easily erode.  Soils are slow to dry out; before sod was laid down on this lot, it stayed muddy longer than other areas after rains.

"The Callisburg series consists of deep, loamy soils that formed in clay and clayey shale.
A1 -- fine sandy loam, dark brown moist; massive, very hard, very firm, few fine and medium pores
B21t -- strong brown sandy clay, moist; strong medium and coarse blocky structure; extremely hard, very firm; few fine pores
B22t -- yellowish brown clay, moist, strong coarse blocky structure; extremely hard, very firm, common clay films
B23t -- brownish yellow sandy clay, moderate coarse blocky structure, extremely hard, very firm, common clay films
B3 -- yellowish brown sandy clay, moist; moderate coarse blocky structure; extremely hard, very firm; few clay films"

MY COMMENTS:
I've only observed the A1 and B21t layers.  Both appear to fit this description, although the topsoil appears to have been possibly amended.  Notice that clay is present in all layers except the topsoil.  I'm not sure why this soil is named "sandy loam" because it doesn't seem to be so except for the very top soil.  Our topsoil appears to to be moderately clayey (I've seen much worse).  Perhaps the activities related to the construction of the house and leveling of the neighborhood caused this layer to be disturbed, removed, or significantly altered in some way (which is likely).  We were told that, in the original soil, the topsoil is 36-75% silt/clay.  Of the next layer down, this is 40-90%.  Below that it is 51-80% silt/clay.  Soil is moderately acidic at the top and only grades to neutral several feet down, and is slightly alkaline at its lowest levels more than 6 feet down.  Bedrock and the water table are both more than 6 feet down.   Permeability is 0.2 to 0.6 inches per hour.  Our experience is that it is zero.  When I dug up some shrubs we planted that appeared to be drowning, the root mass was completely saturated (to liquid mud) from when they were planted a full month earlier!

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BayouBengal
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new to forum/old to eathbox -- Zn 8b, BR. La.


« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 10:05:48 PM »

Zen, Your description doesn't sound like sandy loam to me, and certainly not fine sandy loam. sounds more like clay and perhaps some river silt. Thats why I listed that site for a home made composition percentage test. Looks like a lot of amendment with gypsum followed by organic matter, if you have those clay tubs where you're trying to plant shrubs and end up with a root soup two weeks later, of course you could always grow water feature plants (sorry bout that thats not funny). There are a couple of sites that will give you info on building sandy loam. Just enter "Making sandy loam" in your search box and you should find enough to give you an idea of what will be required. --- Good luck, Chuck
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mjb8743
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Zone 7, South NJ, Garden State


« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 10:10:50 PM »

Why not take a soil sample (from different areas of your yard) to your local extension agency. Take some pictures also. Maybe they can do an analysis and make recommendations for improving the 'soil'.

Mickie
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111 EBs and growing... so how come there are never enough boxes??
zenful6219
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Posts: 73

Denton, TX Zone 8


« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2010, 10:17:06 PM »

Zen, Your description doesn't sound like sandy loam to me, and certainly not fine sandy loam. sounds more like clay and perhaps some river silt. Thats why I listed that site for a home made composition percentage test. Looks like a lot of amendment with gypsum followed by organic matter, if you have those clay tubs where you're trying to plant shrubs and end up with a root soup two weeks later, of course you could always grow water feature plants (sorry bout that thats not funny). There are a couple of sites that will give you info on building sandy loam. Just enter "Making sandy loam" in your search box and you should find enough to give you an idea of what will be required. --- Good luck, Chuck

In my previous comments, I was also trying to say that it doesn't seem like sandy loam to me either.....I don't know why they are calling it that.....they being the Texas Highway Department in their engineering report. I'll have to give that site you recommended another look and will try to find some information on how to build "real" sandy loam. Thanks for the comments.
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zenful6219
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Posts: 73

Denton, TX Zone 8


« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2010, 10:18:08 PM »

Why not take a soil sample (from different areas of your yard) to your local extension agency. Take some pictures also. Maybe they can do an analysis and make recommendations for improving the 'soil'.

Mickie

hmmm.....good idea! I'll check into that.
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BayouBengal
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new to forum/old to eathbox -- Zn 8b, BR. La.


« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2010, 10:28:18 PM »

 Mickey is right about the soil sample. I don't know the proticall over there , but here we had to take 4 or 5 inch slices and different depths, isolate them, allow to dry, zip lock bag and label. I'm sure they'll tell you. That test I listed will tell you how much clay you have , it'll be on the bottom of the jar. If your sod looks fine  the only amendment you'll have to make is at your growing sites, of course you'll have to trench or channel to assure some drainage. == best of luck-- Chuck
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Deb
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The Pacific NorthWE'T - Sunset - W. Climate Zone 6


« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2010, 03:09:08 AM »

Since your soil is waterlogged, it's just another reason to use EarthBoxes for your veggie and flower gardens.  Actually, poor soil has led many of us to these boxes.

Doesn't help the lawn much, but at least you can have fresh homegrown food to eat while you work on the other problem.  ;>

Deb
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cushman350
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Tomato Hell, Wichita Falls, TX Zone 7b Yeah right


« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2010, 08:00:23 AM »

The soil makes me think of trying to use an EB without an air gap between the mix and the water. The mix cannot find its natural balance of air and water. It stays supersaturated. How to get this trapped moisture to drain away or not to collect in the first place? Sounds like a septic system in your area would be quite challenged. Each scrub or bush needs its own sump pump or lateral lines. The ground in my area of Wichita Falls is clay and digging post holes by hand or a rental two man auger was a joke. About 6" was as deep as it would go and filling the hole with water didn't help, it was still full the next day, like water in a bucket. What worked was using 1/2" conduit, 3 ft. long clamped to a garden hose and mashed almost flat on the other end. It was a waterjet boring device, messy but worked great. Three or four holes with that and then a hand post hole digger worked great.

Professional help seems in order. I'm at a loss.
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